and the problem is, when government grows, the private sector suffers. and if you say, well, who cares where the money goes, the problem is government growth is always less inefficient than private sector growth and this is one step toward hopefully allowing the private sector to grow, tamping down on unions which i think have hurt many, many, many industries, despite the higher wages. in the union you have higher wages until you lose your job, and i think this is a step forward, this is progress, what needs to be done. >> brenda: you know, jonas, toby brought up a good point. which is that union membership has been declining for decades, record lows right now. so, what difference does all of this make? the unions don't have as much power. does this make all that much difference to jobs? >> i'll go off what the guest just said. if this were true the unemployment rate wouldn't be so high right now. the union rates the lowest level of all times and should have the lowest unemployment rate and we do not. and what the other guest said they create jobs in a b